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Tabatha Jones: Welcome to the Intentional Next Act. I'm your host, Tabatha Jones, and if you're new here, friend, welcome. This is where we talk about all things career, business, money, reinvention, slash building a side business or growing a business.
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Tabatha Jones: And figuring out what the hell comes next at this stage of life.
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Tabatha Jones: A quick warning before we get started today. If you've got littles in the room, now is a really good time to put their headphones on, turn up their tablets, and get them in a space where they can't hear what you can hear. Maybe put your own earbuds in, whichever works. I'm feeling a little spicy. It's been a day, and I've got some things to say.
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Tabatha Jones: All right, hopefully you've got those headphones on them or your earbuds in and we're ready to go.
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Tabatha Jones: So, I had something happen recently with a prospective client, and I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. In fact, I think I've talked about it to a couple of different clients recently who are struggling with pricing, which kind of led us to our topic today.
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Tabatha Jones: If you don't value your work, why the hell should anyone else?
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Tabatha Jones: So we're on our clarity call, which is my very first intake call with a new client, a new prospective client, where I'm really uncovering what is she trying to build? Where does she want to go? What does she need help with?
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Tabatha Jones: All of the normal things that you talk about when you're deciding whether a coaching relationship makes sense.
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Tabatha Jones: Are we a really good fit? Are our vibes aligned? I'm a full believer in that. Like, is she ready to work for it? Where is she at in this journey? And for her, asking the questions about my own journey and my own client success.
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Tabatha Jones: Toward the end of the call, she asked me what the investment was.
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Tabatha Jones: I told her it's $9,500 for the private coaching that would serve her best.
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Tabatha Jones: And she immediately said.
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Tabatha Jones: Let's do it.
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Tabatha Jones: There was no hesitation. There was no, let me think about it. There was no, I need to talk to somebody. I'll let you know.
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Tabatha Jones: there was none of that awkward silence where… I know, if you're like me, you feel this… that awkward silence where I feel like I need to start spilling it. Um, and then a lot of times, what I see in this space, and I've done in the past, is start negotiating against myself. Well, what if I throw in all these bonuses, or this extra time, blah blah blah?
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Tabatha Jones: No, she said, let's do it.
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Tabatha Jones: And the next thing she said completely surprised me. She said, I had set my intention before this call.
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Tabatha Jones: And if you had said a price less than $6,000, I was an absolute no.
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Tabatha Jones: I was like, well, shit. Why do we worry about our prices so much? Because the right people, and the right problem, with the right solution that I can deliver.
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Tabatha Jones: Nobody questions that.
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Tabatha Jones: They're like, yes, take my money. Help me do the thing.
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Tabatha Jones: Let's go back a little, because that's not what I was expecting her to say. I was expecting her to ask questions.
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Tabatha Jones: So when she said that, I asked her to tell me a little more about it.
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Tabatha Jones: And her answer…
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Tabatha Jones: Is the part I haven't been able to get out of my mind.
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Tabatha Jones: In a nutshell, she said, if you don't value your own time, expertise, and program.
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Tabatha Jones: How are you going to help me build and maintain the confidence to value mine?
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Tabatha Jones: There it was.
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Tabatha Jones: She wasn't testing to see how expensive I was. She wasn't saying higher-priced coaching automatically means better coaching. She was looking for me to model the exact thing she was hiring me to help her do.
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Tabatha Jones: She's building something of her own. She's been in corporate forever. Entrepreneurship is newer to her.
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Tabatha Jones: Eventually, she's going to create an offer and put a price on it.
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Tabatha Jones: Then she's gonna have to look another human being in the eye and say.
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Tabatha Jones: Here's what it costs to work with me.
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Tabatha Jones: And somebody's going to say no.
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Tabatha Jones: Somebody's going to say that's too expensive.
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Tabatha Jones: Somebody's definitely going to ask for a discount.
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Tabatha Jones: Someone's going to tell her they need to think about it.
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Tabatha Jones: Someone might even tell her, I would never pay that.
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Tabatha Jones: I hear all of these things regularly.
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Tabatha Jones: And she's going to need to hear those things without immediately thinking, well, crap, I guess I'm charging too much.
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Tabatha Jones: Because part of what she's hiring me to do is help her stand confidently behind the value of what she's creating.
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Tabatha Jones: So she's essentially saying, Tabatha, if you can't stand behind your price.
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Tabatha Jones: How the hell are you going to help me stand behind mine?
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Tabatha Jones: Fair point.
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Tabatha Jones: And sometimes, friends, your coach clients will coach you right back without you ever expecting it.
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Tabatha Jones: And it made me realize something else.
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Tabatha Jones: At this point, or at some point in general, you have to stop asking other people for permission to believe your experience is valuable.
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Tabatha Jones: And I think this is particularly hard for women, especially those of us who are Gen X women, or in our 50s and beyond.
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Tabatha Jones: Ladies, we have decades of experience. We have degrees, we've got certificates, we've got promotions, we have awards, clients, results, people constantly coming to us and asking for advice.
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Tabatha Jones: And then someone asks, what's the investment? Or how much do you charge? And suddenly, we're like, well, maybe $222 is good.
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Tabatha Jones: Ma'am.
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Tabatha Jones: What happened?
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Tabatha Jones: Oh my gosh.
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Tabatha Jones: I have a client, we're gonna call her Joyce, because she's building on the side, and we want to protect people's privacy. Plus, we don't want anybody to feel called out.
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Tabatha Jones: Joyce was creating a six-week program.
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Tabatha Jones: This woman knows her shit.
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Tabatha Jones: She has the experience. She has something super valuable.
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Tabatha Jones: And when she brought me her pricing, she wanted to charge $222.
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Tabatha Jones: For six weeks.
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Tabatha Jones: No, ma'am.
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Tabatha Jones: Now…
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Tabatha Jones: when someone's brand new, and really struggling to put a price on their work, and I think brand new coaches, or consultants, or service-based providers.
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Tabatha Jones: I know that can be hard to put a price on your work. You haven't maybe done it before.
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Tabatha Jones: So I'll allow a client to have a beta.
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Tabatha Jones: I'm not anti-beta testing. A beta test can be useful. You get real people in the program. You get to test it. You see what works. You get feedback. You maybe make some adjustments.
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Tabatha Jones: You build your confidence.
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Tabatha Jones: And you get proof that a human being.
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Tabatha Jones: is actually going to give you money for the thing you created.
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Tabatha Jones: So when it came to Joyce's program, I said, fine.
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Tabatha Jones: You can charge $222, and you can have 3 beta clients.
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Tabatha Jones: 3.
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Tabatha Jones: Not 27.
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Tabatha Jones: Not the beta price lasts till 2031.
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Tabatha Jones: You get 3.
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Tabatha Jones: And then we're raising the price to $1,200.
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Tabatha Jones: Now, the look on her face when I said $1,200, I thought she was gonna fall off of her chair. We were on Zoom. If I had been there, I probably would have been on the floor laughing, but I was laughing on Zoom.
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Tabatha Jones: Because to her, $1,200 felt huge.
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Tabatha Jones: So, I said, Joyce, would it surprise you to know that I have a 5-week program that's priced at $4,500?
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Tabatha Jones: She said, "Yes, people pay that." And we laughed again.
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Tabatha Jones: Because does everybody pay me $4,500 for that program?
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Tabatha Jones: Abso-fucking-lutely not. To some people.
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Tabatha Jones: It's not worth it.
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Tabatha Jones: To the people who need the solution, I bring them for that price?
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Tabatha Jones: Yeah, they're like, pick me, take my money, let's do this thing.
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Tabatha Jones: I have a consistent flow of people who do.
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Tabatha Jones: And here's the thing. When your price point is right, you don't need everyone to say yes.
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Tabatha Jones: You need the right people to say yes.
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Tabatha Jones: Someone saying no isn't evidence that your price is wrong.
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Tabatha Jones: Sometimes it's simply evidence that someone said no.
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Tabatha Jones: BFD, right? It's one person. One person said no. That is it.
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Tabatha Jones: Which brings me to another client.
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Tabatha Jones: does incredible work. I've experienced her sessions myself. They are truly transformational.
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Tabatha Jones: And she charges $75.
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Tabatha Jones: Yeah, $75.
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Tabatha Jones: And one of her clients told her she wouldn't pay her any more than that.
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Tabatha Jones: So guess what?
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Tabatha Jones: She hasn't raised her price in 5 years. Now, she's only been my client for a couple months, and we're working on this.
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Tabatha Jones: So listen, I love this woman.
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Tabatha Jones: But as a wise woman, that would be me, once said.
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Tabatha Jones: Fuck that, sister. We're not doing that.
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Tabatha Jones: One person said she wouldn't pay more.
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Tabatha Jones: And she's allowed to say that. She gets to decide what something is worth to her.
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Tabatha Jones: What she does not get to do is become the chief pricing officer of your business.
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Tabatha Jones: Why do we give one person's opinion that much authority?
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Tabatha Jones: If one person says, I wouldn't pay more than $75.
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Tabatha Jones: Well, sometimes here, well, nobody will pay me more than $75.
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Tabatha Jones: Those aren't the same sentences. Those aren't the same reality.
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Tabatha Jones: At all.
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Tabatha Jones: And I want to be clear here.
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Tabatha Jones: Sometimes your price is wrong. Sometimes your offer or your solution is wrong.
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Tabatha Jones: or the transformation needs work. It needs to be a little bit more clear.
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Tabatha Jones: Sometimes you just haven't spoken to enough people and gotten enough market research.
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Tabatha Jones: Sometimes you haven't really demonstrated things very clearly.
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Tabatha Jones: We listen to that.
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Tabatha Jones: And I say this all the time, the market gets a vote. That's why I have my clients talk to live human beings in their area of service.
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Tabatha Jones: I will make you talk to people. I know, scary. That actually makes some people probably not want to work with me, but that's how it works. You can go build all kinds of glorious things, but if you haven't talked to anyone to find out if they actually want to buy it.
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Tabatha Jones: You're kind of wasting your time.
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Tabatha Jones: Ask me how I know.
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Tabatha Jones: So…
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Tabatha Jones: One person's no does not get veto power, or really any power, over your business.
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Tabatha Jones: And this is especially hard when you've spent 20, 25, 30 years getting really good at something.
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Tabatha Jones: And that's because your expertise starts feeling easy to you, and that's the case with this particular client.
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Tabatha Jones: Oh, that only took me 20 minutes. Oh, well, that's really obvious. Anyone could do that.
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Tabatha Jones: No, sister. Anybody couldn't do that. You can do that.
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Tabatha Jones: It took you 20 years because you spent 25 years, sorry, it took you 20 minutes because you spent 25 years getting really good at it.
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Tabatha Jones: You probably recognize patterns faster. You know what questions to ask.
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Tabatha Jones: You can see when someone's about to fall off a cliff, because you've already seen it happen 400 times, and probably did it yourself at least once or twice.
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Tabatha Jones: Something being easy for you doesn't make it less valuable.
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Tabatha Jones: Sometimes it's easy for you because you invested in yourself to learn the thing.
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Tabatha Jones: You earned the right for it to be easy.
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Tabatha Jones: And this is something I've had to work on too.
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Tabatha Jones: Because there are a few things I'm just not available for anymore.
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Tabatha Jones: Some of that is, I'd love to buy you coffee and pick your brain. Oh, good. Coffee's six bucks and the 25 years of experience that comes with it is free. Okay. Or the other favorite, can you just help me with this one quick thing?
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Tabatha Jones: Every coach and consultant and service-based practitioner, service-based business leader listening probably felt that in their soul.
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Tabatha Jones: Because the quick thing is almost never a quick thing. The question might take five minutes to ask. The answer requires 20 years of experience to answer.
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Tabatha Jones: And that question that takes 5 minutes, it never really ends there. It keeps going. It's a long conversation. Then it turns saying, can I send you this thing to review? Or, do you mind taking a quick look at this?
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Tabatha Jones: Can you tell me what you think?
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Tabatha Jones: And there's always a follow-up question, and another email or text. And congratulations! You are now in a consulting engagement that no one told you about, and no one is paying for.
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Tabatha Jones: And here's where it's been hard for me.
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Tabatha Jones: I'm a spunky Libra.
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Tabatha Jones: I love people, I love helping people, I love being involved with people, I love helping people be more successful.
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Tabatha Jones: And I am really generous with what I know.
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Tabatha Jones: Let's take this podcast, for example.
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Tabatha Jones: It's free.
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Tabatha Jones: I have an Idea to Income Jumpstart, which is a free workshop that I offer live or recorded versions of.
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Tabatha Jones: I share information and thought leadership online for free all the time.
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Tabatha Jones: I answer quick questions, I share resources, I help people. That's part of who I am.
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Tabatha Jones: But I also run a business.
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Tabatha Jones: And I've had to learn that those two things can exist at the same time.
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Tabatha Jones: I can be generous with my expertise without making my expertise free.
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Tabatha Jones: That's been a big lesson for me.
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Tabatha Jones: Because something being easy for me doesn't mean it has no value.
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Tabatha Jones: If you ask me a business question, and I can immediately see the problem.
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Tabatha Jones: That's not because the problem wasn't difficult. It's because I've spent years learning how to see it.
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Tabatha Jones: If I can look at your offer and quickly tell you what's missing…
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Tabatha Jones: That's expertise.
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Tabatha Jones: If I can hear you describe your business for 10 minutes and identify the thing you've been circling around for 6 months.
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Tabatha Jones: That's my expertise.
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Tabatha Jones: And if I can save you from making a mistake I made 5 years ago that really slowed me down or cost me a shit ton of money.
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Tabatha Jones: That's my expertise.
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Tabatha Jones: Friend, we will spend 25 years becoming experts.
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Tabatha Jones: And then apologizing for charging because the answer only took us 20 minutes.
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Tabatha Jones: I want you to stop doing that. And yes, I listen to my podcast because sometimes I'm talking to myself as a reminder.
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Tabatha Jones: And here's the most ridiculous part. You may not know me well yet. I have a corporate background. I led tech teams in corporate America at a Fortune 50 company for more than 20 years.
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Tabatha Jones: And a part of my story is that once I stayed in a role for 10 years.
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Tabatha Jones: Trying to just build my expertise and get better and be more visible and get my degree and take on more responsibility.
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Tabatha Jones: And I never asked for more.
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Tabatha Jones: When we went through a department reorg.
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Tabatha Jones: I realized I was already doing more than the job ahead of me.
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Tabatha Jones: So I applied for it.
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Tabatha Jones: I was offered that promotion.
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Tabatha Jones: With a 4% pay increase.
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Tabatha Jones: I was able to negotiate that to a 19% pay increase and a higher title.
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Tabatha Jones: Because corporate Tabitha, she was a badass leader. She was tough. She learned things the hard way, sitting in 10 years, for example, taking on more and more responsibility, and then being just fucking done with it.
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Tabatha Jones: So corporate Tabatha could sit across from executives and say, nope, no thank you, I'm out.
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Tabatha Jones: But early entrepreneur Tabatha occasionally wanted to go, is this okay?
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Tabatha Jones: What do you think?
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Tabatha Jones: What the hell happens to us between that corporate powerhouse leadership style and early entrepreneurship? Oh my gosh. I can tell you, corporate gives you a lot of guardrails. There are salary ranges. I'm fortunate to live in California where I can see those salary ranges now.
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Tabatha Jones: It gives you titles, and bonus structures, and annual reviews, and market compares. Um, someone somewhere has already decided what a job is worth.
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Tabatha Jones: And then you start a business, and someone hands you a blank sheet of paper with the price line not filled out, and a good luck girl with a Swiss slap in the ass.
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Tabatha Jones: And suddenly…
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Tabatha Jones: All your corporate confidence disappears.
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Tabatha Jones: So I want to say something that I believe gets lost in all that charge what you're worth type of conversation that goes on.
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Tabatha Jones: Friend.
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Tabatha Jones: Your price is not your worth. You're a human being.
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Tabatha Jones: You don't have a price.
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Tabatha Jones: Your offer or your service has a price, and that price is a business decision.
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Tabatha Jones: The problem you're solving matters. The outcome matters.
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Tabatha Jones: The market you're serving matters.
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Tabatha Jones: Your experience?
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Tabatha Jones: Matters.
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Tabatha Jones: The level of access you grant matters.
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Tabatha Jones: Just as your capacity matters, and your business model matters.
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Tabatha Jones: So no, this episode isn't me telling you to double your price tomorrow because Tabatha got spicy on a podcast.
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Tabatha Jones: Don't necessarily do that.
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Tabatha Jones: But pay attention, and don't be afraid.
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Tabatha Jones: And charging more than the value you can actually deliver? That's not confidence. That's just bad business, and it won't lead to repeat business or referrals.
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Tabatha Jones: So be very careful and intentional.
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Tabatha Jones: What I'm telling you is this.
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Tabatha Jones: Once you've done the work, once you've tested the offer, once you understand the value to your client.
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Tabatha Jones: Once you've chosen your price.
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Tabatha Jones: Stand behind that damn thing.
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Tabatha Jones: Say the number.
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Tabatha Jones: Practice saying the number. Before a call, sometimes, if I know I feel that energy that I might get some pushback, I practice saying the number.
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Tabatha Jones: When you're on the call with the client, a prospective client, and they say, what's the investment?
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Tabatha Jones: Say the number and stop talking.
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Tabatha Jones: Don't immediately discount it. Don't start adding a bunch of random bonuses because the other person got quiet.
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Tabatha Jones: Don't negotiate against yourself.
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Tabatha Jones: And don't feel like you need every person to say yes.
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Tabatha Jones: Mostly because not every person will say yes.
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Tabatha Jones: But also.
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Tabatha Jones: Sometimes that yes is the wrong yes.
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Tabatha Jones: And a yes that comes from pressure can turn into a lot more work for you than you ever expected.
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Tabatha Jones: And suddenly you'll find you're more invested than your client is.
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Tabatha Jones: Some people will say no.
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Tabatha Jones: Probably lots of people.
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Tabatha Jones: The right person will say, let's do it without hesitation.
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Tabatha Jones: Which brings me all the way back to the woman who started this whole conversation.
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Tabatha Jones: She's successful. She has a great career. She's an amazing woman. Her energy, I tell you, I get off our coaching calls and I feel even more elevated.
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Tabatha Jones: She's not made of money.
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Tabatha Jones: Money matters to her. The investment matters to her.
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Tabatha Jones: She simply believes that she is worth investing in. Her dream is worth investing in.
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Tabatha Jones: And the people she wants to help are worth her taking that dream seriously.
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Tabatha Jones: She's invested in herself before.
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Tabatha Jones: And she understands something else, I believe, about great coaching.
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Tabatha Jones: The value doesn't end when the coaching engagement ends.
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Tabatha Jones: I have things coaches taught me years ago that I still use today.
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Tabatha Jones: I know I talk a lot about bad investments that I've made along the way. Something good has come out of almost every single investment.
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Tabatha Jones: There are things that I learned that I still use today.
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Tabatha Jones: There are questions that change the way I make decisions. Skills that change how I sell.
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Tabatha Jones: conversations that change how I lead.
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Tabatha Jones: A lot of things that changed how I see myself.
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Tabatha Jones: An investment in yourself.
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Tabatha Jones: It can show up in your confidence.
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Tabatha Jones: Your boundaries. Your finances.
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Tabatha Jones: Your willingness to take a risk.
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Tabatha Jones: your willingness to say no, and your willingness to say yes.
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Tabatha Jones: And that's why I believe great coaches are the gift that keeps on giving.
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Tabatha Jones: That does not mean that every investment will pay off.
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Tabatha Jones: rewind about 30 seconds and listen to what I said. Not every coaching investment will pay off the way you expect it to.
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Tabatha Jones: It does not mean you should spend money you don't have.
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Tabatha Jones: And it definitely does not mean you should spend, you know, put $30,000 on a credit card and hope you're gonna manifest your way out of it.
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Tabatha Jones: Please don't send me complaints that say you did that. I've been in programs that say, just charge it, take a loan against your house, borrow money from friends and family.
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Tabatha Jones: Do what you gotta do if you believe in yourself.
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Tabatha Jones: I don't coach that way, I don't believe in that, and I don't believe that women in their 50s and beyond need to take those kinds of financial risks.
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Tabatha Jones: What I want you to do is start taking yourself.
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Tabatha Jones: your experience, and the things you're trying to build seriously.
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Tabatha Jones: I want the women I coach to develop this muscle.
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Tabatha Jones: I want you to be able to look someone in the eye and say.
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Tabatha Jones: Here's the investment to work with me.
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Tabatha Jones: And breathe.
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Tabatha Jones: I want you to hear no without immediately deciding you got it wrong.
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Tabatha Jones: I want you to hear yes without wondering whether you should have charged less or given more.
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Tabatha Jones: I want you to understand that your experience has value, even when what you're doing feels easy to you.
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Tabatha Jones: And I want you to stop apologizing for having spent decades becoming really fucking good at things.
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Tabatha Jones: Your experience is inventory.
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Tabatha Jones: The problems you've solved have changed lives and business outcomes.
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Tabatha Jones: Think about the teams you've led, the systems you've built, the mistakes you've made and learned from.
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Tabatha Jones: The patterns you recognize and the things you see easily.
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Tabatha Jones: The things people constantly come and ask you for help with.
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Tabatha Jones: Friend, when you're building your business, all of that is inventory.
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Tabatha Jones: And at some point, you have to stop asking other people for permission to believe that your inventory is valuable.
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Tabatha Jones: So here's what I want you to think about this week.
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Tabatha Jones: What do people consistently come to you for?
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Tabatha Jones: That you've started treating like it's no big deal.
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Tabatha Jones: And…
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Tabatha Jones: Where are you giving away expertise because you're uncomfortable putting a price on it?
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Tabatha Jones: Don't turn it into a course yet. For the love of God, do not buy a domain, do not open Canva and start creating something. We're gonna talk about that next week.
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Tabatha Jones: But for now, just take a breath and notice it.
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Tabatha Jones: What if the thing that feels easy for you is easy because you're actually just really good at it.
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Tabatha Jones: If you're sitting there thinking, okay, Tabitha, maybe I do know some shit people would pay me for.
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Tabatha Jones: Friend, that's why I wrote the idea to Income Playbook.
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Tabatha Jones: It'll help you unpack what you know.
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Tabatha Jones: who you can help, and how you can start turning your experience into income without quitting your job first.
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Tabatha Jones: I'm not a burn-the-boats kind of person. Let's refer back to when I said I create things that are accessible for people who maybe aren't quite ready to invest in a full coaching program.
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Tabatha Jones: This book is what I wish I had had when I started my business.
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Tabatha Jones: This book, I can tell you without a doubt, would have saved me thousands of dollars that I have spent on learning things that I know now.
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Tabatha Jones: That would have been so much easier. And some of my investments, as I said, were wasted. I invested in the wrong things, things I wasn't ready for.
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Tabatha Jones: Something good came out of all those things, but honestly, this book for less than $16?
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Tabatha Jones: It is going to get you so much.
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Tabatha Jones: of just leverage. If you think about leverage and starting to build that foundation, that's what's in the book.
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Tabatha Jones: The link will be at the top of the show notes. It's available starting October 1st, so this is really exciting for me, and I hope for you.
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Tabatha Jones: If you want to work through the foundation with me, grab my free Idea to Income Jumpstart and kit while you're there.
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Tabatha Jones: So, it is a free workshop that I host. It is live or recorded, so you've got multiple options. As I said, both links are at the top, so there's no scavenger hunt required in the show notes.
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Tabatha Jones: Next week, we're going to talk about what happens when you take all of your valuable expertise and immediately do exactly what I don't want you to do.
19:38:22 --> 19:38:27
Tabatha Jones: Build a bunch of shit no one asked for. There's your spoiler alert.
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Tabatha Jones: Because knowing you have something valuable is only part of it.
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Tabatha Jones: We want the market to get a vote. So until then, remember, you don't have to blow up your life to build a bigger one.
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Tabatha Jones: Thanks for listening. Be sure to share us, and I'll see you next week. Take care, friend.
